Anybody have trouble with compressor not turning with lowish battery voltage?

Partners & Manufacturers Viair
1

Anybody have trouble with their compressor sometimes not turning on or staying on with lowish battery voltage? I am having this issue, I think it is the brushes. When the engine is off, and the pressure in the tank goes low enough to trigger the compressor, it turns on for a few seconds, probably at a hair less than 12v, and then shuts off after a few seconds. I have to tap the compressor to get it to run again. This has happened twice so far. Usually this doesn’t happen. The compressor is 1 year old, out of warranty.
I don’t really get the physics of it because I figure if the compressor is turning and a brush doesn’t make contact, the momentum will keep the compressor turning long enough for the brush to make contact again, but I really don’t know how motors work.

This has never happened when the engine is running (~13.8V to compressor).
So is this normal, or is this the beginning signs of brush wornoutage?

2

It sounds like the battery is getting weak if you’re not having the problem with the engine running but tapping it to make it run could be a worn brush indication.

3

Yeah it was at 11.66 volts. Still weird how it wouldn’t go. It wasn’t seized, wasn’t drawing power. Still works well when the alternator is on, so no complaints on my purchase so far.

4

OK, now it happened while my engine was on today (I was driving)! This is a Viair 400c
I did a few toots at some high schoolers and when I got to my destination, my cooling fan was on, but the compressor wasn’t. The cooling fan runs off same relay as the compressor.
Tapping the head with the engine off a few times caused the compressor to pop on for a few seconds, pumping at normal speed and making normal noise, but then just stopped like power turned off to it again. Turning on the engine to give it ~13.8 volts instead of 12V or so, I tapped it again and it pumped up all the way that time.

#1. I don’t have a check valve on the leader hose at the moment. This I believe makes the pump work harder somehow. However, I don’t think this is any excuse for the compressor to act this way. If it’s getting power, it should be either pumping or be stalled and drawing a huge amount of amps (fuse would blow). But the motor isn’t taking any power…

So I’m assuming that this is not normal operation even without a check valve. Something is up with the brushes and so I’ve contacted Lancem@viarcorp and he says that there might be some scale on the brushes, I guess like insulating crap that doesn’t allow good conductivity.

So, I’ll be opening it up. I’ve decided that I need redundancy though, I don’t want to deal with this crap. I mean I don’t mind fixing it but I don’t want to be thinking about whether or not I have a train horn or not. The compressor is 1 year and a month or two old.

There are good deals on ebay for dual packs, and I could sell one of the new ones and fix my old one and pair it with one of the new ones.

I am very interesting in a warranty longer than 1 year. Are there any online retailers that offer extended warranties? It would be cool if it were on newegg because I think they offer extended warranties on some stuff.

EDIT: Hmm, it is on homedepot.com, I wonder if they offer an extended service plan on it.

What’s a good way to clean the scale off the brushes and pics of what it should look like?

5

Dan, we’ve emailed several times - and since you aren’t finding the root of the problem on your own - I recommend that you send the unit in for factory service by VIAIR.

The warranty is a one-year manufacturer defect warranty. It wouldn’t matter if the warranty was 10 years in duration, since it only covers manufacturer defects. Defects will show themselves typically within the first few hours of operation.

If the unit ran and performed well until recently, chances are that your issues are not a manufacturer defect. It is always recommended to operate the compressor at charging voltage. Operation of the unit with less than 12 volts will cause the unit to pull higher amps, and will eventually result in the compressor motor being damaged due to the strain of working with less than optimal voltage. Another by product of low voltage is that the result high amp draw causes wiring to heat up. Built up heat can cause your power wires to melt. If that doesn’t happen, you are likely to burn out the thermal overload protector. If, for some reason the overload doesn’t burn out, you will very likely burn out the motor.

These are all things that can happen from low voltage operation. Since your manufacturer defect warranty period is now past, we do offer an “after warranty service”. More information on this process can be found at http://www.viaircorp.com/warranty.

The standard charge for inspection is $20, plus the cost of any parts needed. The best thing about this service, is that we will not rebuild a compressor that is too damaged to invest new parts into - without your approval. Any work performed will be done at your permission, and a credit card authorization is needed before work is done to at least pay for the inspection and shipping back to you in case you decide that you do not want any further work performed.

Please contact customerservice@viaircorp.com if you would like to get a Return Goods Authorization number to initiate the after warranty service procedure.

6

The compressor has spent most of it’s life at over 13 volts.
I haven’t had the time to open it up yet to look at the brushes. I’ll do that before I send it in and I’ll buy another one before I send it in so I have a pump in the mean time.
Thanks

7

Can I remove the bolts where the wires are at to take off the back cover to look at the brushes? Or do I have to take apart the entire compressor? Is it tricky to put the compressor back together after taking off the back cover? I don’t want to mess with the head/piston/cylinder/any of that. I need loctite something or another to prevent the screws from backing out?

8

Hmm, well from looking at this take apart guide; http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f125/taking-apart-viair-450-a-292401/

It seems that taking off the back cover is easy.
I might try to just barely open it and spray some “CRC Industries Lectra-Motive® - Electric Parts Cleaner” in there to try and clean the brushes that way. Hopefully it’ll come with a straw. I won’t mess with it until about 2 weeks from now so i won’t be doing this soon

“BobOnAir” of that link mentions some kind of detent, should I be aware of this?
“there is a mark, detent on the casing that lines up to the pump, and one on the end cap.”
" lining up the detent on the casing with the groove in the end cap."

9

I’m first going to replace my leader hose on my 400c, as it’s leaking and the check valve is busted.

  • What is the wrench size for the beginning of the leader hose on the pump so I can deattach it. 5/8?
    -It is glued on right? Seems like it doesn’t want to loosen and I don’t want to break the pump.
    -Which end of the check valve is sensitive to over tightening, the input or the output or both?
10

Well, I used a crescent (not the roll!) wrench to detach the hose from the compressor. The thread glue wasn’t on too tight. Put on the new hose with loctite 545, will test for leaks tomorrow.

The end of the check valve that is tapered is the output side that goes to the tank. The thread diameter gets smaller towards the end. So I just tightened it part way on the tank and left probably 3 threads completely visible outside the hole.

11

Compressor is getting worse. It will never run on it’s own now without a wack on the backside or on the head, head wackage isn’t working anymore. Getting a refurbished Viair 400C from hornblasters on Friday, will send my pump to Viair for repairing. When I futs with the wires of the compressor, it causes the compressor to either turn on or off and I know power to the compressor is reliable, so it’s the brushes or wiring on the cap.

12

Check your ground! Shiny metal? No rust? Guten tight?

13

Ground is solid with a wire nut. I have power to the compressor from 2 wire nuts. I futsed with them, jiggled, flicked, twisted, and the compressor didn’t turn on or off.
Shiny metal, you mean a short? Nope. Wire nuts are tight. I have a fan wired from those wire nuts and it gets reliable uninterrupted power, power driven from pressure switch relay.

14

Swapped compressors today. It pumped up just fine. Package from Hornblasters was well cushioned with custom styrofoam ends for the compressor.
Will send old compressor to Viair soon.

15

I got the compressor back today.
Pics that they took of the unit, and the repair sheet that shows what they found (look at the fill rates at the bottom, better than the spec!) and the invoice.
http://s909.photobucket.com/albums/ac295/danwat1234/Viair%20400C%20repair/

They discounted a lot, very appreciated. They did not replace the carbon brushes. I still don’t know why the compressor was acting like it needing them to be replaced.

I don’t know how they found oil in the compressor, must have been from the road because my engine bay is pretty clean. I have been thinking about getting a better filter, maybe this:http://www.mcmaster.com/#4401K11

Here is some email correspondence (read bottom to top);

Daniel,

Sorry for the delay but your compressor repairs is finally done. Please fill out the attached credit card authorization form to finalize your order.
Shipping will be around $12.00
Total charge to your card: $45.50 + $12.00 = $57.50

Thanks,

Jessy Widjaja
Customer Service

From: danwat1234@aol.com [mailto:danwat1234@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 10:58 AM
To: customerservice@viaircorp.com
Subject: Re: Viair400c, I need mine repaired

So your new total: $25.20 + $20.00 = $45.50 + shipping.
So we are going with this route? $45.50 + shipping and this includes the inspection fee? OK sounds good but that leader hose on the compressor is brand new from LanceM@viaircorp

Just give me a final set price (plus shipping) and then I’ll ok it. $45.50 + shipping is great to give the compressor a bill of new health and I “ok” that just please verify what’s being replaced and I don’t know much about motor brushes but it looks worn down and concave shaped and the edge of 1 or both of the brushes looks longer than the rest of the brush if I remember right.

-----Original Message-----
From: Customer Service <customerservice@viaircorp.com>
To: danwat1234 <danwat1234@aol.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:32 am
Subject: RE: Viair400c, I need mine repaired

Yup nothing wrong with your carbon brush kit. I will let them know to start the repairs and I will call you tomorrow for the credit card number & I will need to confirm your shipping address.

Thanks,

Jessy Widjaja
Customer Service

From: danwat1234@aol.com [mailto:danwat1234@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 10:02 AM
To: customerservice@viaircorp.com
Subject: Re: Viair400c, I need mine repaired

Wait the carbon brushes were the problem in the first place, or something to do with the motor. That’s why I sent it in. The motor would stop randomly or not turn over in the first place when it gets power and I’d have to lightly wack the end with a wrench to get it to pump for a few seconds and then it would sometimes stop and I’d do it again. It has nothing to do with seizing (too much load).

OK so to do this

Parts Needed:
Intake Valve $20.00
Leader hose $17.95
Cylinder wall $ 22.00

Inspection/labor fee - $20.00
Total for repairs = $45.50 + shipping = ~~$60.00 back to Washington

Are you sure of the Carbon brushes?
If you think they might need to be replaced (look at the dust at Carbon brush end of the motor, lots of dust that looks like Carbon brush dust), then compute price like this;

Parts Needed:
Intake Valve $20.00
Cylinder wall $ 22.00
Carbon Brush Kit $54.50
Inspection/labor fee - $20.00
Total for repairs = ?

And if you really think the leader hose is shot (where is it leaking? The crimp at the compressor end of the hose?) then compute price like this;

Parts Needed:
Intake Valve $20.00
Leader hose $17.95
Cylinder wall $ 22.00
Carbon Brush Kit $54.50
Inspection/labor fee - $20.00
Total for repairs = ?

-----Original Message-----
From: Customer Service <customerservice@viaircorp.com>
To: danwat1234 <danwat1234@aol.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:48 am
Subject: RE: Viair400c, I need mine repaired
Daniel,

My mistake:
We do not need to replace your Carbon Brush Kit.
So lets -$54.40 from your total.
So your new total: $25.20 + $20.00 = $45.50 + shipping.

Thanks,

Jessy Widjaja
Customer Service

From: Customer Service [mailto:customerservice@viaircorp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 8:38 AM
To: ‘danwat1234@aol.com’
Subject: RE: Viair400c, I need mine repaired

Daniel,

Summary:
Found moisture, oil & dirt inside the cylinder head, saddle plate, cylinder wall & crankcase. (keep in mind our compressors are oil-less)
Cylinder wall scratched & damaged due to accumulated dirt.
Intake valve is damaged due to accumulated dirt.
Leader hose is damaged at the compressor end fitting.
Motor is still in good condition.

Parts Needed:
Intake Valve $20.00
Leader hose $17.95
Cylinder wall $ 22.00
Carbon Brush Kit $54.50
Inspection/labor fee - $20.00
Total for repairs - $134.45

I will give you discounts. I can charge your $100.00 even plus shipping charges for repairs.
Please let me know if you want to proceed with the repairs by calling/emailing me with your payment (credit card).

Thanks,

Jessy Widjaja
Customer Service
VIAIR Corporation
t: 949-585-0011 x130
f: 949-585-0188
w: www.viaircorp.com

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-----Original Message-----
From: Customer Service <customerservice@viaircorp.com>
To: danwat1234 <danwat1234@aol.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2011 8:27 am
Subject: RE: Viair400c, I need mine repaired

If you have the newer version of the 400c then you will need to open the
compressor from the crankcase side. Then there are 2 more long bolts
holding the compressors together. You will need to remove these bolts
in
order to get to the carbon brushes.
Installing the carbon brushes:
You can use a small flat head screw driver to hold the brushes in one
at a
time then it should slide right into the commutator. Make sure
everything
is align before you put the plate in (there is a small notch that needs
to
match).

Thanks,

Jessy Widjaja
Customer Service
VIAIR Corporation

-----Original Message-----
From: danwat1234@aol.com [mailto:danwat1234@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 5:07 PM
To: customerservice@viaircorp.com
Subject: RE: Viair400c, I need mine repaired

I see that there are 4 bolts or screws that I have to unscrew from the
front (crank case side) to get the cover off.
I think this will make it harder to repair myself since I think the
back cover is a part of the cylindrical cover itself. If I’m right, I’m
not sure how to put the new spring loaded brushes against the motor
shaft. If the cover came off from the back, I could use paper clips or
something to hold the brushes in a spring-scruntched state and then
once the back cover is on enough I can remove the paper clips and the
brushes will be on the motor shaft. But I don’t think I can do this
with the cylindrical cover opening from the front or can I?

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: Customer Service <customerservice@viaircorp.com>
To: danwat1234 <danwat1234@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2011 3:50 pm
Subject: RE: Viair400c, I need mine repaired

No more labor charge. $20.00 flat feefor repairs & inspection.You can
purchase the parts here, you needto tell me if the long bolts comes in
from the back (rear cover) or the front(crank
case). Thanks, JessyWidjajaCustomerService
VIAIR Corporation

From:danwat1234@aol.com [mailto:danwat1234@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 20113:42 PM
To: customerservice@viaircorp.com
Subject: Re: Viair400c, I needmine repaired
I think I will try to repair it myselffirst. What is the part # for
the rear cover assembly? Where can I buy?
If Isend it in, is there a labor cost for Viair to replace the rear
cover besidesthe $20 + parts + shipping?

-----OriginalMessage-----
From: Customer Service <customerservice@viaircorp.com>
To: danwat1234 <danwat1234@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2011 3:14 am
Subject: RE: Viair400c, I need mine repairedDaniel,

It sounds like you need new carbonbrushes (the rear cover w/ carbon
brushes). They cost $54.50 if you liketo repair it yourselves. But I
cant guarantee itll fix the problemsince we do not have the
compressor here for inspection. If you want tosend it here for repairs
we can thoroughly inspect & clean your compressor. We also will test
your compressor prior to sending it back to you. Repair/inspection fee
is $20.00 plus parts & shipping.
Let me know what you decide. If youdecide to return it for
repairs/inspection then I need your information (Name,address &
telephone number).

Thanks,

JessyWidjaja
CustomerService
VIAIR Corporation

From: danwat1234@aol.com [mailto:danwat1234@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, December 09, 20115:28 PM
To: customerservice@viaircorp.com
Subject: Viair400c, I need minerepaired

Hello,
I bought my Viair 400c a bit over a yearago (out of warranty) and over
the past month it’s been getting worse andworse. The problem has
something to do with the brushes or the wiring. The pumpportion of the
pump is great. Basically it won’t turn on unless I tap the headwith a
wrench or tap the end of the motor and it has quickly gotten to
thepoint where it never works unless I tap it on the end of the motor.

I need a RGA / RMA number so I can sendit back for repair.

How do you want to charge my plastic for$20?

How much more will it cost for labor andparts of replacing the end
cap/brushes?

Thanks,

Daniel Watkins

16

I have found that probably during the whole time that I had my original compressor, the check valve wasn’t working! I probably tightened the leader hose from the compressor too tight to the tank, so the check valve was crushed because of the tapered threading. With my new compressor, I can hear the check valve clunking open and closed on every cycle of the compressor piston. Compressor should last a long time now.
I found that the stock plastic filter sucks, it can bypass very easily because there can be open space between the top of the cartridge and the top of the media. So, I put two filter medias on top of each other in the cartridge and mashed the plastic cartridge shut, and took a long thing of half-width profession duck tape (yes, duck) and wrapped around the cartridge a few times but kept most of the air vents unblocked. So now it can’t bypass!
So the compressor should be getting clean air, shouldn’t have too much stress because of the working check valve and the high speed cooling fan. I just have to watch it if I go to another fire truck parade, crack the hood open for cool air to enter.