First thing, I’m no lawyer, so take my post with a grain of salt and get proper advice if you want to leverage anything written below. I have had a lot to do with writing and reading legal stuff, so I’ve had a bit of a look at the legislation and the intend to the Section 59 procedures out of my own curiosity. Anyway, here’s some info for you to consider below.
I should say is that it won’t do you any favours to upset the Police. Better to do as they suggest and let the whole thing rest for a while. If you take the horns out and thereby can put an end to the matter for 12 months (i.e. the statute limit under the Section 59), at the end of that you can breathe easy again, plus you still have all your cash, horns and car.
Now if you want to push your luck, you can do the following:
If the police come back, I’d ask politely what you’re being charged with (i.e. the breach under the Road Traffic Act). Only then can you mount a suitable defence. In the Police guidelines it states:
"It is essential to remember that Section 59 can only be used in relation to 2 specific offences and even then, only when the manner of use is causing, likely to cause or has been causing alarm, distress or annoyance to member of the public. The two offences to which this section refers are:
- Careless Driving/Riding Contrary to Section 3 Road traffic Act 1988
- Driving / Riding on common land, moorland, footpath, bridleway or restricted byway or any other land not forming part of a road.
Whilst it is possible to place a Section 59 warning against an individual, against a vehicle or both, as a general rule, warnings should not be issued in relation to vehicles. This is because the working of the legislation indicates that under most circumstances, a person should have an opportunity to be warned in relation to their conduct before a vehicle is seized. "
Now having the horns on your car isn’t actually breaking any law, especially not in relation to section 3 of the Act as far as I can gather. Incorrectly using them could be classed as careless or inconsiderate driving, but that’s a far stretch of the regulation under that relevant section of the act. The spirit of the legislation caters for situations where the quality of life is being damaged by noise pollution or intimidation, but unless it’s linked to a clear driving offence it would be difficult to leverage.
The question would be, what would you be charged with if you had the horns in a backpack given the same circumstances and not a vehicle. Is it the act of driving which has caused the breach or the act of using the horn. If it’s the latter, then you should not be subject to the Section 59 (it’ll be some other act).
There do not appear to be valid grounds to demand “removal of your horns” from a vehicle. Again, I would with all respect ask the officers under which regulation he would be making that particular request.
So anyway, seeing that you’ve already been given a section 59 warning, yes they can seize your car, and basically you’d be left to fight the justice system to either invalidate the seizure and/or get your car back. What they can’t just do is go ahead and crush it without certain conditions being met and process being followed (i.e. you not collecting it or paying the ransom against the vehicle). Have a look at the attached flow chart. It clearly shows you the process Police has to follow.
I think the officer was more or less just trying to give you a lecture and provide you with an “easy way out” in order to avoid all the hassles involved in seizing the car. Look at it from their angle: Obviously they have a complaint, so they need to show that they’ve followed that up. Everyone needs to to their job, right?
If you’re worried about the action Police might take, consider getting dressed all good and proper and going down to your local station to have a chat to hem. Outline that you’ve had a S59 notice and the subsequent challenge of car seizure, then ask for advice on what rules you need to follow to steer clear of trouble. Sure you get the odd bad apple, but most of the guys I know are pretty helpful. There’s not too many of them who will ignore an honest attempt for someone to discuss how they should avoid any trouble. It’s in everyone’s best interest.
Anyhow… it’s up to you how you want to treat it. IMO the smart option would be to do as they say, avoid the whole saga, and keep a low profile until the whole thing blows over.
shame I dont live there.
We don’t have it as bad as most of the world although there are still issues but wow do we have it good when it comes to stuff like this if you really think about it