Pre-set, in-line regulator? Opinions needed...

Automotive Onboard Air Systems
1

I’ve experimented with a temporarily installed mini-regulator and found that I’m liking 100psi for my Shocker XL’s However, with the following aftermarket things already under my hood and behind the nose/bumper of my truck, I’m super low on space:

[ul]
[li]240 AMP (nominal) HO alternator[/li][li]Mosfet-based dual rectifier (for bidirectional battery isolation)[/li][li]Twin Diehard Platinum (rebranded Odyssey) AGM batteries[/li][li]0AWG alternator, ground, and battery cabling w/ 1 pair 300AMP rated ANL fuse terminals and fuses (1ea per battery line from dual rectifier)[/li][li]WARN hidden winch carrier[/li][li]WARN winch[/li][li]1 pair of Rigid SR-series 10" driving (LED) lights custom mounted in stock bumper slits/openings[/li][li]Custom-built environmentally-sealed relay/fuse box (for add-on wiring and relays) on custom-fabricated mount[/li][li]Aftermarket 10,000 CFM e-fans[/li][li]Aftermarket upsized radiator[/li][li]Aftermarket upsized transmission cooler[/li][li]York 210L engine driven compressor on custom-fabricated aluminum mount[/li][li]Load genie check-valve/unloader[/li][li]Coilhose Pneumatics 1-816-8924M coalescing filter (w/ metal bowl) on custom-fabricated mount[/li][li]Pneumadyne M30-250-3-90W air manifold with:[/li][LIST]
[li]Pressure switch (160 on / 200 off)[/li][li]250PSI liquid filled gauge[/li][li]Dakota digital 0-400PSI electronic (gauge) sending unit[/li][li]235 PSI relief valve[/li][li]Plumbing to vehicle’s rear air manifold (twin 2.5gal tanks and rear quick disconnect tied in from it)[/li][li]Plumbing to vehicle’s front quick disconnect[/li][li]Plumbing to HB solenoid for Shocker XL’s[/li][/ul]
[/LIST]
My air system is engineered as a 200PSI system – with all components having a nominal (not burst) pressure rating of 200PSI or better. She usually hovers in the 188/194PSI range when the tanks are full and the compressed air has been permitted to cool.

Notice no permanently installed regulator. That’s because when I run air tools off this system I connect a regulator to one of the vehicle’s QD ports via a 3’ whip – and then use a Flexeel hose to connect the tool to the whipped regulator. This was by design as I didn’t want a fixed/pre-set regulator at the vehicle’s QD ports since I often need to dial pressures up or down as much as 20PSI based on the tool I’m using – and I had deep concerns about a regulator withstanding the elements for any length of time.

With no permanent regulator in this setup … and all that stuff crammed under the hood and behind the bumper/nose, already, I can’t find the space necessary to mount a Norgren or some similarly-bulletproof regulator that can handle both the heat and the volume needs I have. However, I think I’ve got just enough behind-the-bumper space left right near the HB solenoid to mount a fixed/pre-set regulator like this one:
http://www.protect-air.us/save-air/protect-air-inline-pre-set-reg.saveair1-4npt-7bar-100psi.html

The SaveAir pre-set regulator appears to be able to handle my inlet pressue, and while the thermal rating is lower than I’d like, the behind the bumper location should present no thermal problem. My one concern is air volume, but I think this can handle the necessary CFM, too?

I’d like opinions, please … because I’m about out of options for a permanently-installed regulator … and my temp-installed regulator just isn’t suitable for permanent placement under the hood (it’s a micro unit, mostly plastic, and won’t survive) – and won’t fit in the remaining space behind the bumper (and still be adjustable).

2

Awesome sounding setup, care to share any pics? I’d be interested to see what sort of space (or lack thereof) we are working with here.

3

The catalog shows the flow rating on page 17, ranging from 400 Ltrs./min (14.1 c.f.m.) to 800 Ltrs./min (28.3 c.f.m.), the catalog has a typo, depending upon setpoint pressure.

4

Wingless – thanks. I’m looking at the 100PSI unit and my read on that table before posting was that the 90PSI and upward units all handle 800 L/min. I guess the heart of my question is whether 800 L/min is enough for the Shocker XL’s?

RJK - I snapped pics all the way through the various build phases as I made my mods, but collating them into something showable has been a ‘when time permits’ kind of thing, and it seems to never get done. I really need to snap a whole-engine shot, but that means cleaning the engine bay for the shot, which I’ve had no time for, lately.

Still, here are some pics that aren’t ready for prime time. (Some are dated – as in there’s no Teflon tape on my system, anymore, it’s all sealed using Loctite 545 thread sealant, now. Similarly, the gauge on the air manifold has been replaced with a higher PSI unit. i.e. Minor changes over time.)

Some things to note about this build – I refused to give up my spare tire (I have a matched spare rim and tire and I’m often in strange places), I refused to give up truck box space (big jack, jack stands, snatch block, other winch supplies are in it!), I refused to give up cab space, and I refused to just sling a tank on the underside of the truck in unprotected fashion since the only place to put decent tanks was close to the (polymer) 34 gallon fuel tank, which for safety reasons (think rupture) I didn’t like one bit – hence a fabricated steel carrier/protector for the tanks.

Bussman environmentally-sealed relay/fuse box after I wired it for my needs & before installation – specifically for my electrical mods (HID hi beams, Rigid SR-series LED driving lights, Rigid Dually D2 bumper-mounted reverse lights, power for York compressor’s clutch, etc.) that would otherwise require hanging (unsealed) relays all over the place … this is much cleaner and safer:

Rear vehicle quick disconnect w/ dustcap:

Custom fabricated tank carrier/protector w/ twin 2.5gal 200PSI tanks that have braided steel over Teflon connections to the rear air manifold and their own equalization line (tough to see) on the far right side:

Tank carrier as seen from beneath passenger side of vehicle – the panel facing the observer is removable (bolts into place) to expose the tank closest to the observer. Also note freeze plugs in bottom (right side) of carrier that can be removed to allow access to drain cocks:

Rear air manifold on vehicle with its own relief valve and twin braided steel over Teflon connections to the air tanks (these cross from the passenger side frame rail to the tank carrier on the driver’s side by following a crossmember over the drive line)

Overhead view of Bussman relay/fuse box and front air manifold in engine compartment:

Frontal view of Bussman relay/fuse box and front air manifold in engine compartment:

Engine compartment layout as viewed from driver’s side (note cap on connection to filter closest to observer - this was taken just before removal of that cap and final connection to EDC using braided steel over Teflon line):

DC Power Engineering HO alternator & York 210L on custom, adjustable bracket (pic taken right before final plumbing connection) - note 300amp rated ANL fuse block & fuse to right:

[b]Shocker XLs and Rigid SR-series driving lights (in bumper) - follow the air lines to the lower left of the left-most bell and you’ll see the black cylindrical top of the HB solenoid sitting there:

Nose view of my Sierra (custom grille, GMC logo, and Shockers tucked neatly away); winch fairlead exposed for photo - it usually has a paint-matched fairlead cover on it:

Overhead console (post-customization/assembly & pre-installation) – horn switch is SPDT to allow selection b/w standard horn and the Shockers:
[/b]

Sitting in my former driveway - cab view of dash console, entertainment system, dash cam, and overhead console w/ Dakota Digital 0-400PSI electronic gauge:

Strange places I often find myself (i.e. why I have all this mess) – taken on a ‘road’ in the middle of BFE:

5

Nice truck and nice custom mods. I’m not totally sure how many CFM the shockers require, although it is certainly less than the bigger “real” train horns. The most common regulator for the larger train horns is higher than 200 CFM to avoid starving the horns, so just at first glance I would wonder whether 28 CFM is enough even if it’s for Shockers.

6

Thanks. The Norgren R17-600 series, 3/4" (port size) regulators are rated for 440 SCFM – compared to a measly 28 CFM on the SaveAir I’m eyeballing. This huge disparity was the original source of my concern.

I should probably call HB and ask them the CFM required for the Shockers. If they don’t have that data, then I’ll ask what the CFM rating is on the solenoid and treat it as a minimum.

7

If you can get the coefficient of velocity (Cv) of the solenoid, you can calculate the SCFM at the pressure you want and use that for a baseline on the regulator. I’m guessing that they wouldn’t need much more than 50 CFM realistically, so you could work around the issue by using 2 regulators in parallel if you need more CFM than just one could provide.

I believe 28 SCFM at 100 PSI is about the limit of 1/4 inch fittings and orifices, so one way to test that out would be to try blowing the horns through a 1/4 inch quick disconnect and see if they squeal or sound weird.

8

The Norgren R17-801-RGSA regulator I am using on my system has massive ports and 480 c.f.m. rating.

The inside diameter of all the components in my system are as large as possible for maximum flow. The two restrictions points are the 3/8" flexible hose / check valve coming off the compressor head and the [url=https://www.trainhornforums.com/showpost.php?p=71421&postcount=5]3/4" NPT short thick-wall nipple connecting to the tank, where I step it up to 1" NPT, then 1" Type L copper.

9

RJK:
Good call on the 28SCFM being max for a 1/4" line. Max recommended through ANSI standard weight 1/4" schedule 40 metal pipe is 26.0 SCFM at 100PSI assuming a pressure drop of 10% per 100’ of pipe. (I checked.)

Using the same assumptions and table but checking for 1/2", 54 SCFM appears to be the max recommended for 1/2" at 100PSI, while 108 SCFM is max at 200PSI.

I seriously doubt the Shockers need close to the max flow rate in a 1/2" system at 100psi (again, 54 SCFM), so 50 SCFM would seem to be an unusually high number. I think I’m just going to call HB and ask, as they should know what their products need in terms of air flow – since, you know, they designed them. :eek:

As for running a pair of SaveAir’s in parallel … that’d get clunky, as I’d need to adapt and Y, then un-Y and re-adapt. At that point I’d have something bulky, again, defeating the point of trying to use a fixed/pre-set regulator.

3/4" and 1" would have been overkill for my purposes. I built using 1/2" main line plumbing and have 3/8" lines in three places (all of which are braided steel over Teflon connections):

[ul]
[li]Connection from compressor to coalescing filter[/li][li]Connection from tank 1 to rear air manifold[/li][li]Connection from tank 2 to read air manifold[/li][/ul]
Since the tank connections are a pair into a manifold with 1/2" connections -and- since the tanks have their own equalization line between them, the 3/8" lines shouldn’t pose a flow issue from the tanks. And since the compressor can only produce a max of about 12CFM, its connection shouldn’t be flow-relevant, either.

My quick disconnect plumbing runs are also 1/2" line intentionally using 1/4" connections as there’s no point running 3/8" QD’s – I don’t have tools big enough to need that kind of air flow.

I could sit down and calculate the actual flow based on the system pressure, number and degree of bends, and lengths of pipe, I suppose – but I’m a bit too lazy for that. I’d rather be modding my truck or renovating the house I bought! :slight_smile:

10

Something I noticed in the pic with the alternator and compressor …

Looks like the pulleys are setup for splines, but the belt has a toothed design?

Maybe it’s just me, but that’s what it looks like … plus I’ve had a VERY odd week, so who knows…

-Kris

11

They are standard 6-groove pulleys for a 6-groove serpentine belt, and the belt you see is a Goodyear Gatorback Poly-V 6-groove serpentine belt

The Gatorbacks do, indeed, have a ‘toothed’ looking design. Since switching to using Gatorbacks I’ve never had belt squeal when the belt was moist/wet (which I’ve had happen with brand new serp belts that were properly tensioned – and I hate it).

They’re spendy compared to other belts, though…

12

Ah, nice!

I need to see if I can cross reference my longer Gates belt for my EDC to the Gatorbacks.

Thanks for clarifying this, I’ve have some issues with my belt and this will help :slight_smile:

-Kris